Another tipping question

[Keith]

Ok so this restaurant says 12% survive charge added in lieu of salary. Gratuity for exceptional service optional

So now if I want to tip 20% is that In addition to the 12% or is it another 8% needed to add to the 12?

[Tink]

Add the 8 to the 12 for a total of 20.

[Keith]

Add the 8 to the 12 for a total of 20.

Thanks :) thats what we did but the server actually came back and said I didn't explain did I about the 12% service but gratuity extra. I said nope but hopefully you found the gratuity in cash with the check? He didn't say anything and wandered off

Made me wonder if I was doing it wrongly and short changing him

[Tink]

Nope!

[Britchick]

Maybe he was trying it on as tourists might think you needed to leave another 20%. Weird way of doing it, I've never seen that


I hate it when the waiters think you don't know what you're doing and over explain trying to get as much as possible. Guarantees a lower tip from me! Lol

[Tink]

That is a bit of a trick, as far as I'm concerned. You don't often see it in food and beverage, but it happens. You'll find it in spa services too. I'll add a bit, but point out that since the "service fee" (or whatever it is that particular establishment calls their hidden charge) is already calculated, I rounded it "up."

I really don't like hidden charges. :(

[foreverducky]

I just wanna say I hate tipping....Not because I'm cheap, but due to how it's all conducted, and how everyone things they deserve a tip (maybe I should put a tip jar outside my therapy room?!)


Ok, off my soap box. :exit:

[Watchinherskip]

I just wanna say I hate tipping....Not because I'm cheap, but due to how it's all conducted, and how everyone things they deserve a tip (maybe I should put a tip jar outside my therapy room?!)


Ok, off my soap box. :exit:

Worked for Lucy!!! :tongue:

[uscwest]

Reader's Digest just ran an interesting article about tipping back a couple of months ago. A couple of things stood out to me.

1. Don't refuse to tip for bad service but rather talk to the manager.

2. Waiters don't keep all of their tips, they share with the bartender, bus boys etc.

3. Bartenders should always be tipped, anywhere from $1.00 to $2.00 per drink or 15 -20% of the check.

And Keith I have to take a different stance on the 12% service charge and tip. If the waiters are not receiving a salary then that 12% is their salary. Tips should theoretically be over and above that, so 8% is really not a great tip. Since the IRS figures a wait person's income based on a percentage of sales the 8% may actually be costing them money. I know it sucks but unfortunately that is the way of life here in the US.

Just one man's point of view.

[Keith]

1. Don't refuse to tip for bad service but rather talk to the manager.


yeah Im 50/50 on this one. On the one hand, whilst it's happening, speaking to the manager is the way to go to try and get it fixed no doubt. On the other hand, having to do that can easily ruin an evening whereas a small, or no, tip should send a clear message to the under performing server. Up to the client IMHO


2. Waiters don't keep all of their tips, they share with the bartender, bus boys etc.

yep true enough


3. Bartenders should always be tipped, anywhere from $1.00 to $2.00 per drink or 15 -20% of the check.

makes me laugh this one but it's the way it is and that's that.


And Keith I have to take a different stance on the 12% service charge and tip. If the waiters are not receiving a salary then that 12% is their salary. Tips should theoretically be over and above that, so 8% is really not a great tip. Since the IRS figures a wait person's income based on a percentage of sales the 8% may actually be costing them money. I know it sucks but unfortunately that is the way of life here in the US.

absolutely! that's the question really. Are they REALLY not receiving a salary :/ or are they saying they receive a base but then the 12% is a base "tip" to ensure they always come out with something and then anything exceptional is over and above that.

Really hard to tell IMHO and it's pretty awkward to have to ask! I guess I'll email them for some clarity for next time


Just one man's point of view.

yep :) it's interesting to see though.

[uscwest]

BTW Keith, is that Bern's that is doing that?

[Keith]

BTW Keith, is that Bern's that is doing that?

yeah!

Bern's was great as you'd expect. Truly wonderful food and a lovely experience.

The guy who served us provided polite but basic service. Nothing to complain about but far from the effusive service offered by others there. It was very much "what would you like" "here it is".

Nonetheless, we got what we needed and that's fine so I wanted to ensure I was tipping him 20% since, although that was probably high for the service actually received ;-) it was what I felt comfortable with.

So I saw the 12% service charge thing. I couldn't really see what others were doing. Looked online on my phone and the consensus seemed to be that it was a way of ensuring that the servers got a baseline "tip" for doing their job and anything over that was optional according to service.

So I actually just looked at what the 12% had been and put that much again in cash with the check. In my mind that was giving him closer to 24% than anything else.

..but then I started to wonder if that was REALLY the case, or was 12% his wage and then 12% his tip which as you say would be low.

Problem being, how would I know without asking which frankly would have felt awkward at best.

I've emailed them anyway so I know for next time :)

[Tink]

12% is what the IRS presumes and taxes on. You are not wrong. You've been forced into the taxable tip, anything over that is good.

[Keith]

we have the official reply ... and may I say... PHEW!!!

"Mr.Pritchard,
Thank you for inquiring about the tipping practices here at Bern's Steak
House. As an avid traveler abroad I too have been confused by the various
"tipping norms". Here at Bern's the 12% service charge serves as a tipping
base. Most guests will leave an additional 3% to 8% gratuity for fine
service. I hope this will assist you and we look forward to having you join
us again in the near future.
Sincerely,
Joseph Donoian
Dining Room Manager
Bern's Steak House"

[Wendy]

I'm glad they got back to you Keith :) you did the right thing and now you know what to do next time :D

[uscwest]

And from the rest of us Keith, who might visit Bern's, many thanks.

[Keith]

And from the rest of us Keith, who might visit Bern's, many thanks.

no problem, definitely good to know for the future!

[Johnie]

Lol Billie!! I feel the same way. Seriously, what you and I do CHANGES lives.

[Johnie]

If someone is a bad server, I don't know that not leaving a tip at all or a small one would even make the point known. They would more than likely blame the patron. Talking to the manager would be best.

That being said, I think a lot if servers get blamed for things that are not their fault. If the food is not as good as you expected, that would be the kitchens fault and should be addressed with management.

Also if it appears the the server is clearly overworked and appears to be trying, I would bring that to managements attention.

You drop my food off and ignore me or you let my glass get empty, that is a server problem.

[Keith]

yeah, I hear you about the server getting blamed for things that aren't their fault. Still, I'd hope they'd understand that and would work to kick other parts of the "team" that arent performing so as not to affect their tip.

In terms of talking to the manager, again yeah I dont think there can be an argument that it's the most sensible option, but yah know, sometimes I'm just not up for the fight? Especially when I've given somewhere a second chance and it's been as bad or worse than the first. I'll just think ok, last time for me, I'm done.

..but overall yeah, I do accept that it's best to give the place a chance to fix the problem whilst it's happening.

[Johnie]

I understand not wanting to talk to the manager. But I don't think it needs to be a fight. An awesome manager wants to know what is going on in their establishment.

I'm feeling particularly sympathetic to the servers today because I have what we call support staff at work. There is one who is not the least bit supportive. Management won't do anything about it. It could be that way in some restaurants as well. But if you've encountered this problem more than once at a particular restaurant then that is a big problem. Too many great places to visit.

[Keith]

We have a saying at work "one touch fix, you won't get a second chance"

We basically assume that if we can't notice and fix your problem with our service in one go, immediately, and preferably before you even notice you have a problem, you'll end up just going elsewhere.

We went to ruby tuesdays this afternoon, ok it's not up there in the great restaurant list but yah know. So no knives/forks. We couldnt get our servers attention so we pinched them from another better laid out table. We asked for ice water, nothing arrived until second time we asked and then it took a fair while. The menu said xyz comes with .... when we asked she snapped "thats why I asked you what sides you wanted".

This is often how it is. It's not *AWFUL* it's just not *GREAT*. I kinda don't want to moan about these little things, but every time they happen, I'm mentally knocking down the gratuity.

[Tink]

Keith, I am so with you! I absolutely hate having my night/day/meal out turning into a situation where I have to deal with talking with managers, all of whom argue. Period.

I will be far more likely to let the tip reflect my dissatisfaction with service. I know the difference between what the server is responsible for and isn't. I'll tell the server if I don't like what the kitchen has done, but I've actually refused to talk with managers before.

I don't go out to have to put up with bad service, poorly cooked food, and argumentative managers who don't want to hear that improvements need to be in some facet of their establishment.

I have a staff of over 70 and if I have to be responsible for everything they do, then a GM needs to step up too.

[Johnie]

Hmmm maybe I should dine with you. I swear I don't have nearly this many issues.

[catrancher]

I too don't like to confront the manager. It never seems to go quite like I'd planned. However, we did have something happen a couple of weeks ago that I wanted to share.

My DW and I like to dine at our local Chile's occasionally. On this last occasion, our server (a nice enough young lady) seemed to be hurrying us around every turn. Just a very rushed kind of attitude. When my DW and I go out to eat, we kind of like to take a moment to actually enjoy the occasion. If I wanted fast food, I'd go to McDonalds or something. I was pretty put out but, as usual, wasn't going to say anything. To the server or the manager. But as it happens, the manager was making rounds through the restaurant and happened to stop by our table to inquire if everything was OK. That gave me and my mouth the opportunity to voice my opinion. I told him that the meal was fine but we had felt terribly rushed throughout the whole thing and maybe they should just slow things down a bit. I explained that I know they want to get you in and out as quickly as possible since the more they sell the more they make. But maybe they could just tone it down a notch.

To my surprise, he about fell all over himself apologizing. Offered the explanation that they in no way wanted to hurry us and perhaps it was because our server was fairly new that she was trying too hard to be efficient. He then popped off to have a word with our server. My DW and I were just kind of sitting there with our jaws on the table. After a moment, he came back, apologized once again, and gave us a guest check for $20 to use on our visit. On our way out our server also stopped us and apologized also.

To be perfectly honest, I was more than a little impressed with their reaction. Socked was more like it! :shocked:

To my way of thinking, that's the way a place should always handle complaints. Not as an insult but as constructive criticism that's trying to help them provide a pleasant experience for their customers.

We've since been back there a couple of times and the service has been very good.

Tom (:macwave:... nice to see someone take responsibility so willingly!)

[Keith]

That's truly great, if only more places responded like that!

[Tink]

Catrancher, that is a great experience and I completely agree. The managers should care about the entire experience, regardless of whether it's Chilli's or Uno's or Bern's. If they don't there are plenty of other places for a customer to go, especially in that nice comfortable bracket. :yes:

We're with you. When we go, we like to be able to hear (to carry on a conversation) and to not feel as though they are pushing the food at us to leave.

[Wendy]

If we get back service we don't leave a tip. Chris did speak to the manager in one restaurant once and the manager wasn't interested, no apologies nothing at all. Since then if we get a server who isn't interested or we get bad service, then we leave nothing.

[Tink]

And that sends a strong message. There isn't a server alive that doesn't understand when they get that response.

I hate the whole tipping scheme. Pay people fairly and call it good. Everyone goes on about how much it would raise costs. Nonsense. We're paying for it now!

[Keith]

I hate the whole tipping scheme. Pay people fairly and call it good. Everyone goes on about how much it would raise costs. Nonsense. We're paying for it now!

yeah absolutely agree.

The more the tips are integrated, expected and charged without option, the less well the scheme works anyway (if it ever did work well).

[Tink]

If there is an automatic gratuity, or a service charge, I don't add to it.

Unless, it's Ricardo. Then I do.