yeah :) at least someone will get some fun out of itOriginally Posted by Vikki, post: 316029
The boy's teacher this past school year was in school by 8:00 am and left at 3:10 pm. She would not stay one second longer, nor come in one minute earlier.
Here in the US the education system is the biggest culprit. It is subject to every fad, and change and ridiculous new trend in pedagogy that you can imagine. The teachers spend the majority of their time learning the "new system" than they do educating the children. Teaching so a child can pass a test, and not to truly educate the child is another part of the problem. There is no time or options for exploration because they must move on to the next required topic for the FCAT tests. It's heartbreaking.
I remember going home from school, and if you told your Mom you were in trouble, she'd get on at you too! And you'd better tell you were in trouble because the minute the teacher had a second she was going to call and talk about it anyway. There was one isolated instance where my Da didn't approve of something a teacher did with my brother (in grade school). Da called the principal at home and they "discussed" the matter and it never happened again.
All service positions are more vocation than profession, although professional conduct must be a factor. I usually put in 14-15 hour days with a 3 hour commute on top of that. I'm happy when I work only 10 hours per day. I completely understand being paid barely enough to keep the tax collector from the door, and the lack of pay raises.
I do not approve of teachers as "child development specialists." I'll raise the boy, thanks. I realize that some parental figures do not feel the same way, and expect the teacher to do everything. Personally, I think the teacher, backed by the educational system should simply say, NOPE. Your kid. You raise her/him.
However, again when I was a child, we ate our school lunch at the cafeteria table with the teacher seated at the head. She insisted on manners, proper tone of voice, eating food properly (no dessert before finishing the vegetables, that sort of thing) and other types of role modeling. That can be seen as "raising a child" in some ways. She was insisting on her level of manners being followed. However, that was the norm, and it seemed to work.
Anyway. I'm not a child educator. I teach adults. Part of the reason I don't do child education is because of the parents. I'd be in jail with some of the horrors that go on.
To all the teachers "out there" who like my friend, do so from the heart with the desire to actually mold young minds and see them go on to be successful adults, nothing but praise and the fervent wish that the salaries were better, and that the working conditions were too.
I will say, teachers like nurses, like therapists, like administrators such as myself, need to police their own profession and use strong peer pressure to force bad teachers out. No other group will be more effective.
Goodness, I do natter on, don't I? It's nice to have a discussion of an emotive topic with people who care enough to talk without insulting. I guess that's a testament to all the good teachers we had, isn't it? :D
Totally agree with all of that. I would say its 50/50 with parents. Some totally support you, some question everything you do and say, no matter how much of a horror their child is.
I insist on good manners. If the children are being a pain, I sanction them. I expect them to work hard. Perhaps I'm old fashioned. Alongside that though, I'd like to think they all have a lot of fun too. I know I do ;)
I'm also a parent though. If Ben is a pain at school or doesn't do his best, he'd better watch out ;) fortunately he's not been a problem at school.....yet ;)
Same for Steven. We had some behaviour issues in year 2. Didn't last into year 3.Originally Posted by Vikki, post: 316033
It's hard being a parent and working in a school. You get both sides. The amount of times I've had another parent rant at me about something in school and all I can do is keep my mouth shut. Can't say anything because it's unprofessional, even though you know the true story.
And I'd just like to add a footnote hear. The Daily Mail recently stated that teaching assistants make £17,000 a year. Well to that. And we don't work 9-3 either. Not as long hours as teachers for sure but in our school the after school sports and activities clubs are all run by TAs working unpaid. From Sept I'll be doing 3 clubs, and we stay late to finish displays and get resources ready for the next day. Holidays are unpaid and I've been known to spend a whole half term covering new books for the library.
Remember teachers are responsible for all the other professions.
Exactly. That basically killed my interest in secondary school. I was in a huge class and books were read out with the expectation of memorising them for later regurgitation in an exam.Teaching so a child can pass a test, and not to truly educate the child is another part of the problem. There is no time or options for exploration because they must move on to the next required topic for the FCAT tests. It's heartbreaking.
Having come from a primary school which treated every person as an individual, moved at their pace and encouraged exploration and questions, to be dumped in a seat and listen to a book being read out absolutely decimated my interest in the subjects being "taught".
I wasn't naughty, my parents would have killed me for sure, but I certainly went from loving learning and worrying if I received only an A- to just worrying about how to do the absolute minimum so as not to get into trouble, and hating every moment of school.
I can't level that at any of the teachers and clearly other children there at the same time got over themselves and made a go out of it. So clearly I'm a lot to blame but I certainly feel let down by the educational system around at the time which wasn't able to give me the attention which I clearly needed. I truly think if during those years, if just one teacher had have said to me quietly "ok what's up? you were so interested and now you're not" I could have explained for sure. Although, could the teacher have somehow changed the system so that instead of just memorising, I had the chance to question and explore until I truly integrated the knowledge? I guess not.
I would have worried about being in trouble with a teacher for sure but then I'd be double worried about going home and telling my parents!!I remember going home from school, and if you told your Mom you were in trouble, she'd get on at you too! And you'd better tell you were in trouble because the minute the teacher had a second she was going to call and talk about it anyway.
My father very much considered, and considers now, it all to have been my fault but they did go to the headmaster of the school once. I'd found computers, very early on and before anyone could afford one in the home, and was using articles from newspapers to write computer code by hand. My parents found out that the government had just about started to give all schools a computer and wanted to ask a) could I use it and b) would they be using it in lessons. I remember the headmaster saying no and no. He said he wasn't sure why they'd been sent the computer but it was wrapped up in a cupboard because none of the teachers had the skills to use it. I should pay attention in Latin class since that would teach logic.There was one isolated instance where my Da didn't approve of something a teacher did with my brother (in grade school). Da called the principal at home and they "discussed" the matter and it never happened again.
Some time later a maths teacher did unwrap the computer and I managed to get some time on it. It was amazing to be able to see the code I'd been writing on paper actually run and work on a computer! I wrote a load of maths applications, all on my own in every break and lunchtime with exactly one interaction with the maths teacher when he asked how they worked. I showed him and that week, in the local paper, there was a little article with a photo of him, the headmaster and a couple of favoured students showing off my stuff "local school teaches latest computers" with an article about how the kids in the photo had written these great programs with support from the forward thinking school. I deleted it all the next day and went back to writing on paper.
How to create a disaffected anti-social computer geek in one easy lesson
I agree, I doubt I could do the job.Anyway. I'm not a child educator. I teach adults. Part of the reason I don't do child education is because of the parents. I'd be in jail with some of the horrors that go on.
I have tought, and do every now and again teach, computer science at university and although that's a world apart from school I'm sure, even at that level, some of the attitudes horrify me.
That's the problem isn't it :( I don't support this strike but yet I do support the GREAT teachers and teachers' assistants, receiving more benefits. It's how we say that without everyone feeling we're attacking every teacher.To all the teachers "out there" who like my friend, do so from the heart with the desire to actually mold young minds and see them go on to be successful adults, nothing but praise and the fervent wish that the salaries were better, and that the working conditions were too.
yes for sure to the outsider like myself, teachers to some extent but NHS to a larger extent, seems like a unit that sticks together. Even if everyone knows miss.ABC is rubbish, she's still part of the unit and thus protected. It's what happens when a group feels picked on, they try and stick together, but it's counter productive IMHO.I will say, teachers like nurses, like therapists, like administrators such as myself, need to police their own profession and use strong peer pressure to force bad teachers out. No other group will be more effective.
Me too I guess but we've all had experience of education and it shapes our feelings about pay and so on. It IS great that we can discuss such things here amongst friendsGoodness, I do natter on, don't I? It's nice to have a discussion of an emotive topic with people who care enough to talk without insulting. I guess that's a testament to all the good teachers we had, isn't it? :D
I have to admit to being a teacher myself. I can agree with lots of points from both sides.
It is a very stressful job (not saying that any other job is not also!) There are factors which people who do not teach see. For example, constant observations and scrutiny of work, capability procedures (which goes on your record and you could be fired within 6weeks), as well as professional development and if you don't pass your first year, you cannot teach in a state school.
I am not saying we have the hardest job, but we do have a demanding and rewarding job. I will be working through most of my holiday getting my class semi-ready for September as I will be at a new school....so again...I am not one of those lazy teachers!
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Yes, we do. I have spent thousands of dollars of my own money over my career as a teacher (a title that I am proud to wear..what could be more noble?). I saw something on FB that hit home...Teaching is the only career where you actually steal pens and pencils to bring to work rather than the other way around.Originally Posted by Johnie, post: 316011
Strikes are a tough call. In Virginia..we are not allowed to strike, so I have fallen further and further away from my friends teaching in Pennsylvania. We have the same number of years in and they make between 10 - 15 K more a year and have for the length of my career (now 34 years...you can do the math).
One more thing to consider besides the lack of raises (or minimal ones...like a .5% one over the past two years), is that they aren't replacing teachers when they retire, just spread the kids into the other classes and the class sizes are getting bad. Add inclusion to the mix and it is a wonder that we can function.
Anyhow...to my UK teachers...God speed.
Well I completely disagree with them striking and in fact I think they should be one of the professions not allowed to strike as in Virginia.
Of course, with that right taken away, there would have to be another way to assess and reward independent of government, trade unions and other involved parties.
Fact is though, everyone's got it tough right now. Other public sector wages have been frozen for years and in the private sector, many have lost jobs but those who haven't have seen remuneration fall either directly or by inflationary erosion. Final salary pensions have long gone and even promises about retirement age simply can't be kept.
All of which is to say, even a massively important role such as teaching is going to have to keep being hit, as we all are, for another few years yet :( no politicians really want to say it but as with any household budget there comes a time when too much borrowing hits home and until it's paid, things are tough all round.
I hate it I really do, I consider this recession has been caused by such stupidity, and even criminality, within the banking sector. I still can't believe how much money was used to bale them out seemingly with crazy low terms (how come we give all that money to the banks to fix themselves, they keep borrowing at practically 0% and lending to the rest of us at 10-20 if they'll lend at all).
Still I'm afraid that whilst almost everyone else is suffering, it's absolutely the wrong time for any strikes to gain sympathy.