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Blackfish

Discussion in 'SeaWorld/Discovery Cove/Aquatica' started by Badlydrawnkel, Aug 6, 2013.

  1. Badlydrawnkel
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    Badlydrawnkel Addicted to Mickey

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    Will anyone be watching this when it is released?

    I'm just in awe and shock of it all tbh how alot of it was all hushed up.

    What are your thoughts?

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
  2. keith
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    keith Camera nut Staff Member Administrator Forum Host

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    I've read a lot about it and I'll be watching it when it's released here.

    I think the whole thing was mishandled hugely by seaworld and it's definitely made me think hard about my attitude to whales in captivity.
  3. Badlydrawnkel
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    Badlydrawnkel Addicted to Mickey

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    Me too Keith. I am actually in two minds whether to watch the Shamu show when I go next week.

    I am against anything like this anyway (something my dad instilled in me when I was younger) it really is has given me food foe thought!

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
  4. Britchick
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    Britchick Serious Forum Regular

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    I think it's a shame the film makers are using someone's tragic death to push their point.
  5. keith
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    keith Camera nut Staff Member Administrator Forum Host

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    ...but looking at it from the other side, if you felt that something was dangerous cruel and unsafe, then a death occurred, you wouldn't ignore it would you? You'd naturally use it as further proof.

    I've not seen the film yet so I don't know how biased it is but I do think there's a heck of a lot more to it than seaworld would like people to know.
  6. Badlydrawnkel
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    Badlydrawnkel Addicted to Mickey

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    Definitely! Just like Keith said, there are two sides to every story. I think the film makers originally were making a documentary about Oracs and then this happened. Don't quote me, but I am sure I heard that in a interview.

    I know it is a sad thing to use someone's tragic death, but it jus highlights that working with wild animals is unpredictable.
  7. keith
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    keith Camera nut Staff Member Administrator Forum Host

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    plus I think we've heard a heck of a lot from the Seaworld publicity engine and if, as some claim, a lot of that is lies, then I think we owe it to that poor trainer to hear the real story
  8. Britchick
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    Britchick Serious Forum Regular

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    Maybe, I just don't like the tactics of some of these extreme organisations. I love all animals and am completely torn about going to zoos/animal parks because obviously the animals are in captivity. However if we hadn't done this then lots of species would be now extinct and would we have our love of animals had we not seen them face to face. I choose very carefully where I go and have taken the kids. The agenda of the organisations that produce this kind of film is to demonise places like Seaworld. I don't see that as a balanced view but another organisation putting their extreme view out there which leaves the people on the outside with no idea of who to believe. Bet you're sorry you asked :rotfl:
  9. keith
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    keith Camera nut Staff Member Administrator Forum Host

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    Totally not! you're absolutely right, it's very hard to know who to believe and I'm conflicted all over the place about zoos and animals in captivity. Thing is, I don't think it's right to say that because hearing alternate viewpoints makes it difficult to understand which is correct, we should only hear one side.

    If the film turns out to be a total one sided biased viewpoint then I'll know in just which round receptacle to file it ;-) but I don't know if you've read the seaworld PR that they sent to cinemas and everywhere thinking of showing the film. It may only be me, and I'm no expert, but it doesn't ring true at all :/ it still talks about the trainer having been pulled in by her ponytail and the whale thinking it was a game when I thought that theory had been completely discounted in the courtroom by eyewitnesses and to be honest the length and ferocity of the incident.

    I'm not knowledgeable enough about whales or seaworld or the training to be able to really know but I started off believing Seaworld and the more I read from them as well as everyone else, the more I've started feeling uncomfortable about the Seaworld account.

    I do agree with you though. There's a whole is it better to save a species in a place like seaworld thought but I do wonder this, when as a society will we grow out of needing animals to do tricks to amaze us :( I mean many would say having whales in any kind of captivity is cruel, and ok I'd perhaps have some arguments to use but once they're trained to do performances a few times a day for the enjoyment of humans, I just start getting that uncomfortable tingling "what are we thinking!" feeling.

    Anyway I don't know. It was clear Dawn loved her job and the whales and it's beyond incomprehensibly sad but I feel I need to watch and read more about it so we can learn from it and become better in the way we treat the fellow inhabitants of this spaceship earth.
  10. Britchick
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    Britchick Serious Forum Regular

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    I must admit I haven't really seen much about the incident since it happened. I guess we'll see what happens when it comes out, when is it btw?
  11. keith
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    keith Camera nut Staff Member Administrator Forum Host

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    now I think but only about 10 cinemas are taking it (for obvious reasons I guess)
  12. Badlydrawnkel
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    Badlydrawnkel Addicted to Mickey

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  13. Dawn
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    Dawn carpe diem-ing Forum Host

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    We're not doing Sea World this trip. The park has become stale for us, nothing really new - the same Sea Lion and Otter show for 10 years. But also, I'm having an increasing moral dilemma about the whole animals in captivity thing. The Orca is not an endangered species so why we need to keep it in captivity soley for human entertainment concerns me. We don't need to have these animals in small tanks. They roam thousands of miles in the wild, even the huge tank at Sea World is tiny for their natural instincts. If I was locked in my bathroom for 20 years I'd get a bit cranky and lash out. It's troubling me more and more these days.
  14. Oreo
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    Oreo Addicted to Mickey

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    I agree, however surely the same applies to places like Animal Kingdom too?

    A lot of the animals they have on 'show' are ones that roam for miles and miles, Disney do a good job of making their habitat as natural as possible but still it must have an effect.
  15. keith
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    keith Camera nut Staff Member Administrator Forum Host

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    It's very difficult indeed isn't it?

    To some folks it's very black and white. No animals in captivity ever but then does a wildlife sanctuary count? is the difference between that and an animal kingdom the amount of space?

    I think where I'm getting to is that, largely because of the natural habitat/space/size argument, some animals may well live their lives in an animal kingdom very happily but for others, the space will be minute compared to their natural habitat. I guess it's then we have to think if it's better to let nature take its course in the wild than risk unhappy animals. You'd have to think whales would be the latter case :/ seems pretty impossible to ever replicate a sufficient man made environment for them.

    I think another of my personal questions would be are we doing this genuinely for the animal or for ourselves. If an animal is destined by nature to become extinct, and we save them by sticking some in a cage, is that really beneficial to the animals or are we keeping them in an unnatural situation so we can see them :/

    It's an incredibly hard situation but incredibly important too
  16. Britchick
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    Britchick Serious Forum Regular

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    In the extreme you could say that animals shouldn't be pets either, they've been bred specifically for that purpose. :shrug1:
  17. Dawn
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    But there's a fundamental difference between a domesticated dog and a wolf.

    It's a real dilemma. I did a behind the scenes thing at Marwell Zoo last year and asked a keeper what was the rarest animal they had in the zoo. Reply "we have a herd of Scimitar Oryx which are extinct in the wild." So if it wasn't for zoos and wildlife parks these animals would be gone.

    I don't know why but the Sea World type places make me more uncomfortable than a zoo like Marwell. :unsure:
  18. Britchick
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    Of course there are fundamental differences between domesticated and wild animals but the fact remains that at some point humans have domesticated wild animals for their own needs. I'm not saying its wrong but ultimately at some point those animals were deprived of their freedom. :shrug1:

    I am having a hard time with my conscience with places like seaworld too. The pools look too small etc etc. However with thr existing animals there you could argue that training and displays provide enrichment rather than them just swimming round a small pool all day. Should they be breeding more killer whales to keep in captivity? Probably not, I believe there is enough information already collected and the BBC proved earlier this year that you can observe these wonderful creatures in the wild and learn lots about their behaviours in the process. The question is should we think this about all animals in zoos etc.
  19. Wendy
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    Wendy A hui hou kakou makuakane Staff Member Administrator

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    I think SeaWorld has gone downhill a lot. We went last year and I can't say I would rush back anytime soon.

    The only thing that would worry me is that if SeaWorld was to release the whales and dolphins, then they wouldn't survive in the wild, they have been in captivity for so long and some of them know no difference as they were born in captivity.

    Do I agree with it, I'm torn, some places truly do have the animals welfare at heart and have managed to increase the population of animals that are about to become instinct, but they have done it in a way that they aren't reliant upon humans and they can be released into the wild.

    Busch Gardens is a terrible place and you can see how bad the animals are treated, I haven't been back since I was upset by the swaying elephants, they broke my heart, their animal welfare is terrible, they should be forced to close the animal side of the park.

    SeaWorld and Busch are sister companies and I think they talk the talk, but no-one truly knows what goes on behind the scenes - do I think they have the welfare of the animals first and foremost - no I don't I think it's all about profit from guests to the grants they get.

    I'll be interested to see this film :yes:
  20. Britchick
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    Britchick Serious Forum Regular

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    I didn't know that Busch gardens had that reputation, glad I haven't been now. I feel really bad for that polar bear at SW pacing up and down

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